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	<title>Comments on: NBN Luddites will be proven wrong</title>
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	<link>http://www.buddeblog.com.au/nbn-luddites-will-be-proven-wrong/</link>
	<description>From Paul&#039;s Desk</description>
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		<title>By: Asmo</title>
		<link>http://www.buddeblog.com.au/nbn-luddites-will-be-proven-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-108334</link>
		<dc:creator>Asmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 01:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buddeblog.com.au/?p=615#comment-108334</guid>
		<description>Agreed.  I think as part of the consultation that there is plenty of room for healthy critique/suggestions.

But if you had a risk register for this project, one of the risks would have to be &quot;politics/politicians&quot;.

Call me &quot;very cautiously optimistic&quot;.  I love the concept and I hope it pans out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed.  I think as part of the consultation that there is plenty of room for healthy critique/suggestions.</p>
<p>But if you had a risk register for this project, one of the risks would have to be &#8220;politics/politicians&#8221;.</p>
<p>Call me &#8220;very cautiously optimistic&#8221;.  I love the concept and I hope it pans out.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.buddeblog.com.au/nbn-luddites-will-be-proven-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-107690</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 07:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buddeblog.com.au/?p=615#comment-107690</guid>
		<description>Asmo that is a fair comment and I also alluded to this in my blog. We have over the last decade had at least a dozen plans from the various governments and in the end the all ended up on the scrapheap. Having said this would this stop me from putting my weight behind this one? No! First of all this is based on a sound foundation, not just supported by most in Australia but also internationally. Also there is an opportunity for us all assisting in shaping the actual policy; nothing has been set in concrete. True in the end it will all come down to the execution but we all have a chance and IMHO also a duty to try and get it to work. Paul</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Asmo that is a fair comment and I also alluded to this in my blog. We have over the last decade had at least a dozen plans from the various governments and in the end the all ended up on the scrapheap. Having said this would this stop me from putting my weight behind this one? No! First of all this is based on a sound foundation, not just supported by most in Australia but also internationally. Also there is an opportunity for us all assisting in shaping the actual policy; nothing has been set in concrete. True in the end it will all come down to the execution but we all have a chance and IMHO also a duty to try and get it to work. Paul</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.buddeblog.com.au/nbn-luddites-will-be-proven-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-107687</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 07:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buddeblog.com.au/?p=615#comment-107687</guid>
		<description>Following up on my request for comments on the NBN, I received more reactions, they also include comments from the international expert team that assisted me in the reports for the Obama Team (so you might come across some US stuff).
See (free) http://www.budde.com.au/Research/Australia-National-Broadband-Network-Contributions-from-Experts.html

I also urge you to have a look at the 60 or so comments on the other blog there is some real good stuff in it.  http://www.buddeblog.com.au/analysis-of-the-national-broadband-network-announcement-australia/

Those who want to participate in out (wiki based)  Regulators Submission and forgot their passwords, pls let me know</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Following up on my request for comments on the NBN, I received more reactions, they also include comments from the international expert team that assisted me in the reports for the Obama Team (so you might come across some US stuff).<br />
See (free) <a href="http://www.budde.com.au/Research/Australia-National-Broadband-Network-Contributions-from-Experts.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.budde.com.au/Research/Australia-National-Broadband-Network-Contributions-from-Experts.html</a></p>
<p>I also urge you to have a look at the 60 or so comments on the other blog there is some real good stuff in it.  <a href="http://www.buddeblog.com.au/analysis-of-the-national-broadband-network-announcement-australia/" rel="nofollow">http://www.buddeblog.com.au/analysis-of-the-national-broadband-network-announcement-australia/</a></p>
<p>Those who want to participate in out (wiki based)  Regulators Submission and forgot their passwords, pls let me know</p>
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		<title>By: Asmo</title>
		<link>http://www.buddeblog.com.au/nbn-luddites-will-be-proven-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-107674</link>
		<dc:creator>Asmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 06:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buddeblog.com.au/?p=615#comment-107674</guid>
		<description>Are you sure you aren&#039;t confusing people who have a &quot;once bitten twice shy&quot; attitude to this particular minister with people who flat out don&#039;t think the scheme will fly?

I debate the governments transparency, but we&#039;ll see what we see.

I&#039;m openly critical of the Rudd governments performance on this particularly election promise (about 18 months and counting so far?) but I still recognise the FTTP is a great step forward for this country and will pay it&#039;s own rewards in the long term if it is done right.  I just have very serious concerns over Conroy&#039;s ability to deliver on his promise.

Iirc, that isn&#039;t neo-luddite, it&#039;s the fairly common fear of a politicians ability to screw up anything... =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you sure you aren&#8217;t confusing people who have a &#8220;once bitten twice shy&#8221; attitude to this particular minister with people who flat out don&#8217;t think the scheme will fly?</p>
<p>I debate the governments transparency, but we&#8217;ll see what we see.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m openly critical of the Rudd governments performance on this particularly election promise (about 18 months and counting so far?) but I still recognise the FTTP is a great step forward for this country and will pay it&#8217;s own rewards in the long term if it is done right.  I just have very serious concerns over Conroy&#8217;s ability to deliver on his promise.</p>
<p>Iirc, that isn&#8217;t neo-luddite, it&#8217;s the fairly common fear of a politicians ability to screw up anything&#8230; =)</p>
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		<title>By: Piero Peroni</title>
		<link>http://www.buddeblog.com.au/nbn-luddites-will-be-proven-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-107671</link>
		<dc:creator>Piero Peroni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 05:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buddeblog.com.au/?p=615#comment-107671</guid>
		<description>The benefits that this country can recover from the investment in the fastest NBN we can afford will likely outstrip any of even most optimistic  predictions. The number of applications possible cannot even be imagined today, together with the development of new smart&#039; businesses in Australia.

While the focus is on the applications delivered to individual points such as our home, business, school, etc we have not even contemplated what will be the impact of blanket covering entire cities. What I mean is our home, business, school, etc and ALL space in between.

I wonder what having constant access to highspeed wireless bandwidth, facilitated by optical fibre everywhere, will do to say our phone capability or in car applications (eg. automatic speed limiting, remote diagnosis, remote vechicle management, etc), automatic traffic management for emergency services, security throughout cities and so on.....

Of course we won&#039;t instantly be where our imagination is taking us but frankly it will be a very exciting journey and I am certain that our younger generation will thank those with the vision to make it happen

Piero</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The benefits that this country can recover from the investment in the fastest NBN we can afford will likely outstrip any of even most optimistic  predictions. The number of applications possible cannot even be imagined today, together with the development of new smart&#8217; businesses in Australia.</p>
<p>While the focus is on the applications delivered to individual points such as our home, business, school, etc we have not even contemplated what will be the impact of blanket covering entire cities. What I mean is our home, business, school, etc and ALL space in between.</p>
<p>I wonder what having constant access to highspeed wireless bandwidth, facilitated by optical fibre everywhere, will do to say our phone capability or in car applications (eg. automatic speed limiting, remote diagnosis, remote vechicle management, etc), automatic traffic management for emergency services, security throughout cities and so on&#8230;..</p>
<p>Of course we won&#8217;t instantly be where our imagination is taking us but frankly it will be a very exciting journey and I am certain that our younger generation will thank those with the vision to make it happen</p>
<p>Piero</p>
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		<title>By: garrysholl.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Australia&#8217;s National Broadband Network</title>
		<link>http://www.buddeblog.com.au/nbn-luddites-will-be-proven-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-107559</link>
		<dc:creator>garrysholl.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Australia&#8217;s National Broadband Network</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 03:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buddeblog.com.au/?p=615#comment-107559</guid>
		<description>[...] NBN Luddites will be proven wrong [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] NBN Luddites will be proven wrong [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.buddeblog.com.au/nbn-luddites-will-be-proven-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-107478</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 10:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buddeblog.com.au/?p=615#comment-107478</guid>
		<description>There have been further questions re the WIK study. So here is some extra information on it.

The study covered FTTC VDSL, and FTTH in PON and Fiber Point-to-Point (P2P) solutions. FTTB is somewhere in between and had been analysed by them in that study. Of course speeds in FTTC are limited, depending on the line length and some other physical parameters of the subloop between street cabinet and customer home. One could describe that as between 20 and 50 Mbit/s downstream and 5 and 20 Mbit/s upstream if subloop length is less than 1 km. With PON as a bus oriented architecture several (up to 128) end customers share a downstream link with 2,5 Gbit/s and an upstream link with 1,25 Gbit/s, but PON and GPON will move upwards with new standards under development. FTTH is more or less unlimited, just depending on CPE and central switch ports.
 
FTTH P2P is more future proof and simple in its architecture, but a little bit more expensive than PON. VDSL only is an interim solution for incumbents.
 
Thus, WIK included lower speeds as well, but the ARPU they used in their study had been the same for all architectures. (The necessary take up rate increased with more expensive infrastructures.)

Paul</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There have been further questions re the WIK study. So here is some extra information on it.</p>
<p>The study covered FTTC VDSL, and FTTH in PON and Fiber Point-to-Point (P2P) solutions. FTTB is somewhere in between and had been analysed by them in that study. Of course speeds in FTTC are limited, depending on the line length and some other physical parameters of the subloop between street cabinet and customer home. One could describe that as between 20 and 50 Mbit/s downstream and 5 and 20 Mbit/s upstream if subloop length is less than 1 km. With PON as a bus oriented architecture several (up to 128) end customers share a downstream link with 2,5 Gbit/s and an upstream link with 1,25 Gbit/s, but PON and GPON will move upwards with new standards under development. FTTH is more or less unlimited, just depending on CPE and central switch ports.</p>
<p>FTTH P2P is more future proof and simple in its architecture, but a little bit more expensive than PON. VDSL only is an interim solution for incumbents.</p>
<p>Thus, WIK included lower speeds as well, but the ARPU they used in their study had been the same for all architectures. (The necessary take up rate increased with more expensive infrastructures.)</p>
<p>Paul</p>
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		<title>By: Herman Wagter</title>
		<link>http://www.buddeblog.com.au/nbn-luddites-will-be-proven-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-107459</link>
		<dc:creator>Herman Wagter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 05:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buddeblog.com.au/?p=615#comment-107459</guid>
		<description>Hallo Pete,

you got your cashflows mixed up. The Government loans money (from you or your pension funds preferable) and pays an interest yearly on the bonds for 20-25 years. Which is great for next generations and pension funds. The money is invested in the infrastructure which is hired out to companies who sell services you want to have (Fast Internet e.a.). Interest and depreciation (payback of bonds) is paid out of the income generated. So no taxation is needed at all and you as consumers get a better deal.

Herman</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hallo Pete,</p>
<p>you got your cashflows mixed up. The Government loans money (from you or your pension funds preferable) and pays an interest yearly on the bonds for 20-25 years. Which is great for next generations and pension funds. The money is invested in the infrastructure which is hired out to companies who sell services you want to have (Fast Internet e.a.). Interest and depreciation (payback of bonds) is paid out of the income generated. So no taxation is needed at all and you as consumers get a better deal.</p>
<p>Herman</p>
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		<title>By: PollieGraph - NBN Luddites will be proven wrong</title>
		<link>http://www.buddeblog.com.au/nbn-luddites-will-be-proven-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-107427</link>
		<dc:creator>PollieGraph - NBN Luddites will be proven wrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 01:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buddeblog.com.au/?p=615#comment-107427</guid>
		<description>[...] Read more on his blog here [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Read more on his blog here [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Peter J Cooper</title>
		<link>http://www.buddeblog.com.au/nbn-luddites-will-be-proven-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-107426</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter J Cooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 01:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buddeblog.com.au/?p=615#comment-107426</guid>
		<description>Good article. 

The sooner we get NBN the better, my only concern is value for money (time to market e.g. 8yrs vs Korea 3yrs) and speed (100Mbs vs Korea 1Gbps).

Sure it is being financed with Government bonds but they need to be paid back eventually so it is real long term debt out kids will be taxed (for generations) in order to repay.

Cheers, Pete.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article. </p>
<p>The sooner we get NBN the better, my only concern is value for money (time to market e.g. 8yrs vs Korea 3yrs) and speed (100Mbs vs Korea 1Gbps).</p>
<p>Sure it is being financed with Government bonds but they need to be paid back eventually so it is real long term debt out kids will be taxed (for generations) in order to repay.</p>
<p>Cheers, Pete.</p>
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